Panties in a Knot

Here is a response to my s3x posting on the Google Groups rec.bicycles.tech group:


Congratulations on adopting what may be the least convenient convenience feature in the cycling world. If I'm going to have to pedal every stroke of the way, then what's the benefit compared the much more pure and authentic and less expensive "fixed-foot" walking?  And why would I want changeable gears to make it easier for me, if I already declined the most obvious and effective means of making my ride easier and more efficient?
This is sort of like those stick-on "sandals" that come back aroundevery so often.  Like, what's wrong with either wearing some damn shoes or just going barefoot?
Three-speed hubs with coaster brakes have been available continuously for something on the close order of one hundred years.  They doeverything your new toy does-- only better, more cheaply,  more safely, and more efficiently-- except bite your fingers off.  (Like other fixed gears, the S3X is really good for that.)


Chalo


Wow. 


And my reply:


Chalo,

That's the thing. You don't have to change anything. Ride your bike. Have fun. Don't get your panties in a twist because people do different things or think differently than you. It's funny how some ofthe bike crowd get when you don't have/do/think/want/ EXACTLY what they do. It's also sad how they sneer at other people who have their own ideas. 
I've ridden fixed almost exclusively for years (way before it became the latest hip thing to do for a couple months). I know what it is and I like the simplicity and the purity also. 3 speed coaster brake hubs don't do what this does, though. They freewheel. And they brake when you back-pedal. You know that. What makes you say that's the same thing as a 3 speed fixed hub?
No one will never convince you that this is a good thing. Your prejudice is obvious by your tone and choice of belittling words. This hub allows me to ride my favorite bike on my commute, which includes knee popping climbs and high RPM descents I don't want to suffer through every day with one gear.


My choice, not yours.


Regards,
Vance


I said that some people will revile you for not hating this hub enough!

Shift Cabling Revisited

Well, check out the pics. I bought a couple of bits from Harris Cyclery to make the shift-work more accurate and easier. The long cable housing and jury-rigged clamp were really binding up the shift cable.

I re-did the whole thing, eliminating most of the cable sheath. I added a cable stop at the extreme front end of the toptube, and added a pulley to transition down the seat stays. This was how they did it with the old English 3-speeds, I think. What I will change later is turn the clamps bolt-side down by flipping them over.

It's a bit obtrusive. I would prefer less stuff. Us fixie folks don't like mess. We don't like stuff. We want everything clean and simple. We want..... well....less, I guess.

I hear you. I asked for it. I got involved with... well....  more.

OK. So I have to live with it. But what about mounting the shifter on the seatpost? Or to a rack braze-on on the seatstay? (I don't have one.)  Or some kind of adapter that clamps to the seatstay? Or, borrowing the brake lever idea from the mountain unicycle crowd, a special clamp under the seat? I downshift/upshift maybe 3x on a ride. Reaching down to the seatpost 6 times in 2 hours is not a problem.

Or just go as-is.

Which is what I'll do, for now.

3rd Ride: The Commute

Well, I think I'm going to contradict most of what I said last time. The p-i drag isn't that much. I think what happened is that I was too cautious about downshifting, and would wait too long, then get bogged down by the stiff headwind and the fact that I'd...well...bogged down.

The drag from the planetary gears didn't seem to be anything much today. I rode the reverse commute, up the big climb on Edgewood Rd and on to Canada. The low gear wasn't low enough to be comfortable esp. toward the top where it gets steeper, at least at my current state of condition. Should I slap on a bigger cog?  Or exercise more?  Hmmmm.

Let's leave it as is for now. I am in miserable condition, and need to get stronger. I'm also old, too heavy, stressed out, and probably drink more sake and red wine than is good for me.

But, hey! This is temporary! Spring is here! I'll ride my butt off!

Soon, I'll be seeing that climb as a mere bump in the road.

Downshift for that!!!? Pffffft!

Or not.

But! The bike is working out. The lash-bump was a little annoying today, but I'd never ridden a steep downhill on this hub and there's probably technique that will lessen the bump.

All in all? Very pleased. This is really what I wanted, less the little problems that really aren't any big deal.

P-I Bob/PG-I Drag

I've always liked the term pedal-induced bob (dual suspension bike lingo). I used it as a log-in name for some biking sites back in the day. Vance, aka Pedal-Induced Bob. Well, the subject for today is (in part) planetary gear-induced drag.

A seat-of-the-pants observation (made by me) is, that when shifting down to a lower gear for climbing, the amount of energy it takes to keep turning the pedals = the amount it took before shifting. Or at least, a big part of it. There doesn't seem to be an easing of the strain, at least momentarily (maybe more). It really does help to downshift on the hills, but each time I have made the transition, it feels like I've hit molasses for a few seconds.

Again, I haven't got much experience in the lower gears, but it does take noticeably more energy to turn the pedals than a standard derailleur transmission does when going up a few cogs. This is planetary gear-induced drag. There's a bit of friction happening when the planetaries are engaged.

Second guessing the designers, I think maybe a better method of doing this would have been a direct-drive 2nd gear instead of the top gear. Then, the  machine would be ridden mainly in the mid-range instead of top gear. This would allow for a top gear of high 80 to 90-ish gear inches, and a more moderate low gear. I don't think running in the planetary gears full time would be good, due to the drag and the wear on the system. I don't know if I wish this yet, though. Maybe I'll find I need the low gear it has now in order to do my climbing, and will just live with spinning on the flats and downhill. We'll see.

Speaking of the spinning, this setup is an improvement on the single speed fixed ratio I was running (50/17, 77.6" vs 82.4") . I am able to get a few more MPH out of it on the flats and downhills, which I appreciate, without losing the ability to climb the ordinary stuff.

The other thing I noticed is the weight. This is no lightweight setup. The wheel weighs in the 1500 grams ballpark. However, I only really notice it when lifting it up and down from the roof rack. It is definitely more porky than before.

My gear-inch specs: 82.4, 61.8, 51.5 based on 50T, 170mm crank, 700c wheel, 25mm tire, 16T cog.

2nd Ride on the SA

I fixed the shifting problem temporarily, using a jury-rigged clamp and an adapter used for cable brakes going through hydraulic hose braze-ons. It works, but I've ordered some parts from Harris Cyclery to improve the shifting. More on that later.

I went out for about two hours, and rode mostly in high gear. I didn't really need the lower gears today due to the fact that the outbound, mostly uphill direction was eased by a stiff tailwind, and the way back is mostly downhill. I shifted a few times for grins, and learned to use caution when downshifting for a stopsign. You really want to be going slow when you shift down. The pedal speed increases instantly, and you'd better be ready.

Another thing kept bothering me. I'm very reluctant to stand on the pedals and push hard. I am worried that the thing will disengage and send me into a somersault, bike and all. This worry kept me cautiously in the saddle. I usually don't stand anyway, because I climb faster seated, so no big thing. But sometimes you need to stand up. Time will tell on this. The shifting mechanism doesn't seem too touchy adjustment-wise, and it holds the gears so far.

The lash in the hub didn't seem to be anything much this time out either. Sometimes, when your speed increases and you don't quite keep up with the pedals, the cranks bump sort of annoyingly. It increases in the lower gears, btw, becoming kind of considerable in the lowest gear.  However, I don't really foresee riding much in that gear unless I change the cog to something a lot smaller. Trackstands are hindered by the lash, which makes it difficult to rock the cranks smoothly. Hey! This is not a perfect world.

I'm still hella jazzed about the way it works, and that it hasn't really changed the ride that much.

Riding the Hub

Well, I went for a ride, and as promised, I am posting my first impressions of the hub in action. Over-all, I am very pleased with it. Unfortunately, there is work to be done on my shifter cabling. The casing kept slipping due to the slipshod method I used to set it up, and I could not shift correctly toward the end of the short ride. I was able to get a good idea how everything works, although I didn't get to try the lowest gear on the steepest hills. I didn't really need to though, with the 16T cog I'm currently using. I'm thinking a 14 would suit me better. We'll see.

I had first set up the shifter on the downtube boss, thinking it the cleanest install with the cable running through the stock cable router at the bottom bracket. This shifted well and was by far the neatest, least visible setup, but I kept kicking the shiftrod with my heel. Crap.

I took that apart, and doing the bar-end thang,  ran a long casing through the toptube loops and clamped it to the seatstay. Nice feature: The barend shifter supplied by SA can be taken off the barend plug and bolted to the downtube boss. Kewl.

That solved the heel strike problem, but it is way more visible and I have to use a different method of clamping or use clamp-on cable stops. There is a little pulley device out there that may allow me to eliminate the bulk of the casing. I think it attaches to the seat clamp bolt, but I don't remember.

Anyway, the ride: There was little difference between the way the bike felt/performed in high gear and riding with a regular fixed wheel. The main difference is that the S3X is not a zero-lash setup. There is about 3/8 of an inch of play in the drivetrain, measured at the pedal. This feels much like a very loose chain does on your regular fixed setup.

It's normal for the S3X, though, and I gather from research that they reduced the lash from the prototype hubs. That must have been excessive, because this is kind of a lot. This was not a surprise, as I had read the warnings. Actually, No Big Deal. It didn't bother me, and I suppose that I will learn to forget about it over time.

Shifting into the lower gears was kewl. It feels WEIRD. It happens fast, and the RPMs go up with kind of a jolt. Got to be careful here. Upshifting was fine.

Shifting seems to accomplish what I'd hoped for. Mostly. I want to be able to ride faster on the flats and downhills without the leg-searing high rpms, and still be able to climb the fairly steep hills of my normal rides. Plus, I want to be able to ride the real steep climbs that I could not manage on the fixed setup. Is it all going to work out as I hoped? Is the S3X the panacea I've been dreaming of?

I doubt it. The realm of fixed gear riding is all about compromises. I'm sure the S3X will require some compromises that will rear their ugly heads in subsequent rides. I'm already thinking that the gear spread is not optimal.

We'll see. Remember what I said about compromises?

My bike is huge (me too, I guess): a 63cm Ishiwata Magny double-butted Bianchi frame and fork, 80s vintage, with a S3X mounted to an Alex 36 spoke SUB rim, a 50T Sugino/170mm crankset, 16T cog, Ultegra front brake, bullhorn bars with an SA barend shifter, SPD clipless pedals, and a 32 hole CXP22 front rim/Shimano hub (until I mount the matching SUB front rim). What's your ride?

First Contact

I am doing this blog to try to connect with other people who like the idea of  the Sturmey Archer S3X 3 speed "fixed" hub. (Or not?) Many people would like them to lose their seriously immature label the S3X. Get it? Hahahahahahaha. Smirk.

 :(

Many would like to see it named  the SB3, S3B, "The Sheldon" or some other homage to the guy who is in some major way responsible for the push to get it made. If you don't know about him, for shame, but it's Sheldon Brown, the late bicycle guru and general supporter and encourager of all things bicycle. I'm there with you about the name change, but SunRace already said no.

This hub is an exciting idea for some of us. You have the choice of 3 "fixed" gear ratios that are shiftable on the fly like the old style 3 speeds. Sure, there are double cogs, flip-flopping the wheel, and other schemes to get different gear ratios, but they require stopping and making the changes. Simple enough, but not convenient by any stretch.

Instead of freewheeling/back-braking like the traditional 3 speed, this hub acts like a fixed cog. Anything other than the real fixed cog will naturally go against the grain for many fixed riders. Some will probably rail against this attack on and perversion of the purity and awesomeness of fixed gear riding and will flame anyone who doesn't hate it passionately (enough).

Well, alrighty, then. But, who cares? I got mine, and if the rain doesn't prevent me, I'm trying it out today.

I'll let you know how it goes.....

Please comment. I'd like to hear your perspective/experiences/review of the S3X.