A Modest Proposal

In my last post, I didn't address the problems I had fitting Shimano (really, Shimano-style) cogs on the S3X. I had some difficulty getting the cheap BMX cogs on the hub splines. It took a bit of filing and fiddling to get the 15T cog on. This is not to say that the cogs are poorly made. Apparently, Shimano style cogs are not exactly the same pattern as the SA cogs, which is a bit bizarre, since they're ALMOST exactly the same. The cogs I bought are FMF BMX cogs, which are made to fit Shimano drivers, and really do fit easily over the Shimano splines. The Harris Cyclery site mentions this slight incompatibility and recommends Surly cogs for the S3X. Why they fit better, I don't know, as they are made to be compatible with Shimano drivers. Obviously, the SA cogs will fit perfectly, but they are for 1/8" chain. I run a 3/32" chain, not 1/8".

Speaking of cogs and fitting the S3X, it's pretty cool that they threaded the driver all the way across. This apparently allows for screwing a single-speed freewheel on the S3X, which is somewhat interesting as an option. I doubt anyone would choose the S3X for a full-time freewheel application when the SA 3 speed freewheel hub is a lot cheaper.  Having the versatility of easily converting a wheel to a freewheel then back to fixed is not new, of course. Flip-flop hubs are all over the place. But, the S3X has the same versatility of accepting a freewheel, plus it's got 3 speeds. It's intriguing.....

Before you flame me (ala Chalo) for even contemplating the crazy-ass idea of using a single speed freewheel on the S3X, consider the possibility that diverse ways of thinking make life interesting. I've already accepted the multi-speed fixed gear into my biking life (and so have you, unless you're just lurking on this site to shake your head in wonderment that such fools exist). This proves I'm not a purist. The S3X  on its own is a huge leap into the bizarre and the stoopid, in the minds of some of our biking brethren. It's not much farther to go to fall into the sublimely ridiculous, like, ummm.....say, recumbent bikes. But no, thinking of trying a freewheel doesn't mean I'm thinking of a freewheel equipped S3X mounted on a canvas bodied recumbent trike. But, what if I was?

Were?

It's all good. But, really, I'm not.

I'm just thinking, well, century. Or some longish ride where being able to coast would be, like, restful? Or somewhere with extreme downhill sections? That'd mean a rear brake and all, I know. Maybe one of those suicide brake levers and a long cable ziptied to the frame for the day would work out, huh? Easy on, easy off.

It's just a thought.

Don't be hatin'.

Fussing With Gear Inches

I finally ordered a set of cogs off of eBay. The guy was selling 7 cogs and my bid of about $12 won the shootin' match. The sizes are 20, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, and 13. I put the 15 on the Centurion, which has a 50T ring (actually, both bikes have 50s), requiring breaking the chain and removing a link, struggling to get the wheel on enough due to the shorter chain (should have used a half link), fixed the slow leak in the rear tire, and went for a ride.

The 15T is a definite improvement over the 18T I replaced. The 18 required too much spin on the flats and downhills. I still have a 16T on the Bianchi. The 50/15 gives good speed on the flats, and helps keep the downhill spin under control with less braking, particularly compared to the 18T. The 50/16 on the Bianchi allows me to stay in the top gear much of the time, with the occasional shift at the stop. I almost never shifted with the 50/18. The 15T requires more shifting, and I've been using the lowest gear more than previously (which was almost never).

This seems to me to be sensible, because I was riding much like I was still on a single speed fixie with both the 50/18 and the 50/16, usually only using the middle gear at a stop sign, and the low gear rarely. Now I'm still  in the top gear a lot, but I'm shifting down for moderate climbs and way down for the steeper stuff or when the headwind is fierce. I think 50/15 might be the best compromise, but I'm not going to stop just yet. I'm going to try the 14, then the 13.

I preferred riding the Bianchi until I switched the cog out on the Centurion. I wasn't sure why, but it seemed to take a bit more work to ride the Centurion. Now they seem about equally enjoyable to ride. I thought the Centurion was heavier or the fit wasn't as good as the Bianchi, but I suspect that the gear inches were the difference.

BTW, I tried to readjust the endplay on the axle to see if some of the lash on the black Alex wheel would improve, but I can't get it to be as good as the silver Open Pro wheel. Maybe the black one is an earlier run, or the tolerances aren't consistent. I know the earlier hubs had lots of lash, and it improved in subsequent batches. The difference in lash makes a difference in performance. I don't trackstand much, but the two wheels are a very different experience when I do. Also, the pedal bump is significant with the black one, and I find it a bit annoying on a fast downhill. NBD.

Pictures of the New Wheel and New Bike

So I finished the new bike and took it out for its first ride today. It is pretty good. The lash on this wheel is significantly more than the silver one has. I have not yet tried to adjust the cone, and I know there's too much play in the bearings, so hopefully I can lessen the slop.

As you can see, I strung a long cable housing through the top tube loops, and clamped a cable stop to the seatstay. It looks a lot better than the pulley, and seems to shift fine. This was what I tried to do on the first bike, but it didn't work out because it kept slipping. This time I wrapped some cloth electrical tape around the stay and wrapped a piece around the cable stop, then clamped it all together. It holds well, and seems to be adequate. You can see the clamp and tape in the bottom picture. I also used a couple of cable ties to hold the housing in place.

The bike rides about the same as the Bianchi, but seems a bit bigger, which is good. I'm going to ride them both for a while, and decide which one I'll keep. I like the looks of the Centurion better than the Bianchi, and the fit seems as good. Now I'm thinking about switching things around again: silver stuff on the Centurion and black stuff on the Bianchi, if I decide to keep the Centurion. We'll see. 

The Centurion now has a 50 ring/18 cog. When I rode today, it seemed like I was spinning too fast in the top gear. The Bianchi has a 50/16, which seems better. I think I'll try a 15 or 14 to see if I like being able to get some more speed on the flats and less RPMs on the downhills. It will require more frequent shifting. I'm only shifting 3-4 time per ride, other than for stop signs. The nice thing about this hub is that you can use cheap BMX cogs or even cogs from an old taken apart cassette to try out different gear ratios. Those fixie cogs are expensive.

New Frame for the Black Wheelset

Thinking I might build up a new bike with the Alex wheelset, I picked up a 63cm Centurion CompTA frame on Craigslist. It's a well preserved Japanese frame, from '84 I believe, made of double butted #2 Tange chromoly steel. It's a nice silver and charcoal color scheme, which goes well with the black hub, spokes, and rim. It has some Shimano 600 parts on it which I'll put away or sell on eBay.

Strangely, I found out that the axle on the front Alex wheel is too big for the fork.

Duh-oh!

WTF? I'll have to file out the dropouts to allow for the fatty axle. I didn't notice this until I tried to fit it on the Centurion fork. Not knowing whether this was something with the Centurion fork, I tried the wheel on another bike, and it would not fit on it, either.

I hate doing something permanent like enlarging the slots. My bikes tend to go from one incarnation to another, and I don't like making changes that prevent reverting to the former use. I suppose that a slightly larger opening won't hurt anything....

I will post pictures of the new wheel and the new frame ASAP. I'll have to collect some parts now, including a seatpost, seat, some bullhorns, a new stem, a pulley and cable stop (although I might try setting it up with the downtube shifter again), a crankset, and the other bits I'll need to get on the road.

What am I going to do with two 3 speed fixies?

Lash and Cone Adjustments

Red kiosk, aka Jim, sent me an exerpt from somewhere on the internet, written by a guy in the UK who has had some experience with the S3X hub. See the comments from my last post to get up to speed.

I found his comments interesting, and largely agree with his assessment of the Way Things Are. However, I have had no hint of the dangers of "neutrals" in the hub while shifting up or down, or in standing on the pedals. As you may remember, I have been wary of the possibility of the hub slipping out of gear and sending me on an endo while standing. This used to cause me some concern, but so far, the thing has been rock-solid. You do have to be ready for the shifts, and anticipate the changes in pedal speed, for sure. You do not want to downshift too early at high RPMs.

I had to loosen the locknuts on both of my hubs in order to adjust the axles to fit my 126mm frame. The silver hub was set up to 130mm and the black one was 120mm. I had to add or subtract spacers in order to fit. This caused the cones to loosen on both, and I had to readjust them as best I could. I will take Roger's advice, and research the SA adjustment specs. He does say one thing that rather confuses me. He says that after adjustment you want "... some play at the rim..." At the rim? I don't know what that means. I'm looking at lash at the pedal, but maybe he's locking the pedal and measuring the # of degrees the wheel moves in slack?  Any ideas?

I also agree that you want somewhere between 80-90 gear inches in the top gear. I have something in the mid 80s, and would like a bit more. However, my town has massive hills and the bottom gear doesn't quite cut it, as is, so I'll have to live with it. I may even put a bigger cog on, if I can't get fit enough to climb the last leg home without fear of stroking out. The dragginess of the lower gears I have mentioned and Roger mentions seems to be Not a Problem. I have not noticed any significant drag since I've learned how and when to shift.

This hub rocks. I am having a great time riding it, and don't miss my Paramount fixie one bit. If you can, and you think you'd like the flexibility of 3 gears, get one. You won't be sorry. Like the sage said: "If you have to ask why, you'll never understand."

I have been thinking about putting the second wheelset on the Paramount, or maybe my classic Mercian frame? Blasphemy? Who cares?

Thanks for participating in the discussion. I do appreciate it and hope that we can be of help to anyone interested. Any comments are welcome! Don't be shy! Let us know what you think and what you know.

The New Wheel

I don't remember if I mentioned that the first S3X hub I bought was a silver one that needed building into a wheel. After I got it, I found the Bike Island site which had the black wheelset for a great price and free shipping. So in the interests of easy and quick, I got the wheelset and mounted it on the Bianchi. It is the one shown in the pictures. I never did put the front wheel on, not liking the black so much. I figured I'd get around to building the silver wheel eventually, and start using it instead.

I bought spokes and an Open Sport rim from Harris Cyclery, and following the directions for a 36 spoke 3x wheel on Sheldon Brown's wheelbuilding site, laced it up and trued it as best I could. This was my first go at building a wheel, and it went OK. I had to enlist some help in getting the thing round, but but was able to tension and true it laterally on my own.

BTW, building your own wheel is not cheap. You will pay way more for spokes, nipples, hubs, and rims than a company that makes lots of them does. And you end up paying shipping charges, which are not cheap for wheel-sized packages. I paid more for the parts to build this wheel than I paid for the wheelset from Bike Island. It was an interesting experience, but I won't do it again unless I can't buy what I want off the shelf.  

I mounted it and took it out today for the first ride. Interestingly, it has less lash in the hub than the black one. I suppose it's from a later run, and they have been improved some. I think it looks a lot better than the semi-aero, black Alex SUB wheel on my bike.

There was no performance difference that I could tell. It worked great, shifted smoothly, and stayed true. Now I'm wondering what to do with the Alex wheelset. Maybe I'll find another frame somewhere....

Panties in a Knot

Here is a response to my s3x posting on the Google Groups rec.bicycles.tech group:


Congratulations on adopting what may be the least convenient convenience feature in the cycling world. If I'm going to have to pedal every stroke of the way, then what's the benefit compared the much more pure and authentic and less expensive "fixed-foot" walking?  And why would I want changeable gears to make it easier for me, if I already declined the most obvious and effective means of making my ride easier and more efficient?
This is sort of like those stick-on "sandals" that come back aroundevery so often.  Like, what's wrong with either wearing some damn shoes or just going barefoot?
Three-speed hubs with coaster brakes have been available continuously for something on the close order of one hundred years.  They doeverything your new toy does-- only better, more cheaply,  more safely, and more efficiently-- except bite your fingers off.  (Like other fixed gears, the S3X is really good for that.)


Chalo


Wow. 


And my reply:


Chalo,

That's the thing. You don't have to change anything. Ride your bike. Have fun. Don't get your panties in a twist because people do different things or think differently than you. It's funny how some ofthe bike crowd get when you don't have/do/think/want/ EXACTLY what they do. It's also sad how they sneer at other people who have their own ideas. 
I've ridden fixed almost exclusively for years (way before it became the latest hip thing to do for a couple months). I know what it is and I like the simplicity and the purity also. 3 speed coaster brake hubs don't do what this does, though. They freewheel. And they brake when you back-pedal. You know that. What makes you say that's the same thing as a 3 speed fixed hub?
No one will never convince you that this is a good thing. Your prejudice is obvious by your tone and choice of belittling words. This hub allows me to ride my favorite bike on my commute, which includes knee popping climbs and high RPM descents I don't want to suffer through every day with one gear.


My choice, not yours.


Regards,
Vance


I said that some people will revile you for not hating this hub enough!

Shift Cabling Revisited

Well, check out the pics. I bought a couple of bits from Harris Cyclery to make the shift-work more accurate and easier. The long cable housing and jury-rigged clamp were really binding up the shift cable.

I re-did the whole thing, eliminating most of the cable sheath. I added a cable stop at the extreme front end of the toptube, and added a pulley to transition down the seat stays. This was how they did it with the old English 3-speeds, I think. What I will change later is turn the clamps bolt-side down by flipping them over.

It's a bit obtrusive. I would prefer less stuff. Us fixie folks don't like mess. We don't like stuff. We want everything clean and simple. We want..... well....less, I guess.

I hear you. I asked for it. I got involved with... well....  more.

OK. So I have to live with it. But what about mounting the shifter on the seatpost? Or to a rack braze-on on the seatstay? (I don't have one.)  Or some kind of adapter that clamps to the seatstay? Or, borrowing the brake lever idea from the mountain unicycle crowd, a special clamp under the seat? I downshift/upshift maybe 3x on a ride. Reaching down to the seatpost 6 times in 2 hours is not a problem.

Or just go as-is.

Which is what I'll do, for now.

3rd Ride: The Commute

Well, I think I'm going to contradict most of what I said last time. The p-i drag isn't that much. I think what happened is that I was too cautious about downshifting, and would wait too long, then get bogged down by the stiff headwind and the fact that I'd...well...bogged down.

The drag from the planetary gears didn't seem to be anything much today. I rode the reverse commute, up the big climb on Edgewood Rd and on to Canada. The low gear wasn't low enough to be comfortable esp. toward the top where it gets steeper, at least at my current state of condition. Should I slap on a bigger cog?  Or exercise more?  Hmmmm.

Let's leave it as is for now. I am in miserable condition, and need to get stronger. I'm also old, too heavy, stressed out, and probably drink more sake and red wine than is good for me.

But, hey! This is temporary! Spring is here! I'll ride my butt off!

Soon, I'll be seeing that climb as a mere bump in the road.

Downshift for that!!!? Pffffft!

Or not.

But! The bike is working out. The lash-bump was a little annoying today, but I'd never ridden a steep downhill on this hub and there's probably technique that will lessen the bump.

All in all? Very pleased. This is really what I wanted, less the little problems that really aren't any big deal.

P-I Bob/PG-I Drag

I've always liked the term pedal-induced bob (dual suspension bike lingo). I used it as a log-in name for some biking sites back in the day. Vance, aka Pedal-Induced Bob. Well, the subject for today is (in part) planetary gear-induced drag.

A seat-of-the-pants observation (made by me) is, that when shifting down to a lower gear for climbing, the amount of energy it takes to keep turning the pedals = the amount it took before shifting. Or at least, a big part of it. There doesn't seem to be an easing of the strain, at least momentarily (maybe more). It really does help to downshift on the hills, but each time I have made the transition, it feels like I've hit molasses for a few seconds.

Again, I haven't got much experience in the lower gears, but it does take noticeably more energy to turn the pedals than a standard derailleur transmission does when going up a few cogs. This is planetary gear-induced drag. There's a bit of friction happening when the planetaries are engaged.

Second guessing the designers, I think maybe a better method of doing this would have been a direct-drive 2nd gear instead of the top gear. Then, the  machine would be ridden mainly in the mid-range instead of top gear. This would allow for a top gear of high 80 to 90-ish gear inches, and a more moderate low gear. I don't think running in the planetary gears full time would be good, due to the drag and the wear on the system. I don't know if I wish this yet, though. Maybe I'll find I need the low gear it has now in order to do my climbing, and will just live with spinning on the flats and downhill. We'll see.

Speaking of the spinning, this setup is an improvement on the single speed fixed ratio I was running (50/17, 77.6" vs 82.4") . I am able to get a few more MPH out of it on the flats and downhills, which I appreciate, without losing the ability to climb the ordinary stuff.

The other thing I noticed is the weight. This is no lightweight setup. The wheel weighs in the 1500 grams ballpark. However, I only really notice it when lifting it up and down from the roof rack. It is definitely more porky than before.

My gear-inch specs: 82.4, 61.8, 51.5 based on 50T, 170mm crank, 700c wheel, 25mm tire, 16T cog.

2nd Ride on the SA

I fixed the shifting problem temporarily, using a jury-rigged clamp and an adapter used for cable brakes going through hydraulic hose braze-ons. It works, but I've ordered some parts from Harris Cyclery to improve the shifting. More on that later.

I went out for about two hours, and rode mostly in high gear. I didn't really need the lower gears today due to the fact that the outbound, mostly uphill direction was eased by a stiff tailwind, and the way back is mostly downhill. I shifted a few times for grins, and learned to use caution when downshifting for a stopsign. You really want to be going slow when you shift down. The pedal speed increases instantly, and you'd better be ready.

Another thing kept bothering me. I'm very reluctant to stand on the pedals and push hard. I am worried that the thing will disengage and send me into a somersault, bike and all. This worry kept me cautiously in the saddle. I usually don't stand anyway, because I climb faster seated, so no big thing. But sometimes you need to stand up. Time will tell on this. The shifting mechanism doesn't seem too touchy adjustment-wise, and it holds the gears so far.

The lash in the hub didn't seem to be anything much this time out either. Sometimes, when your speed increases and you don't quite keep up with the pedals, the cranks bump sort of annoyingly. It increases in the lower gears, btw, becoming kind of considerable in the lowest gear.  However, I don't really foresee riding much in that gear unless I change the cog to something a lot smaller. Trackstands are hindered by the lash, which makes it difficult to rock the cranks smoothly. Hey! This is not a perfect world.

I'm still hella jazzed about the way it works, and that it hasn't really changed the ride that much.

Riding the Hub

Well, I went for a ride, and as promised, I am posting my first impressions of the hub in action. Over-all, I am very pleased with it. Unfortunately, there is work to be done on my shifter cabling. The casing kept slipping due to the slipshod method I used to set it up, and I could not shift correctly toward the end of the short ride. I was able to get a good idea how everything works, although I didn't get to try the lowest gear on the steepest hills. I didn't really need to though, with the 16T cog I'm currently using. I'm thinking a 14 would suit me better. We'll see.

I had first set up the shifter on the downtube boss, thinking it the cleanest install with the cable running through the stock cable router at the bottom bracket. This shifted well and was by far the neatest, least visible setup, but I kept kicking the shiftrod with my heel. Crap.

I took that apart, and doing the bar-end thang,  ran a long casing through the toptube loops and clamped it to the seatstay. Nice feature: The barend shifter supplied by SA can be taken off the barend plug and bolted to the downtube boss. Kewl.

That solved the heel strike problem, but it is way more visible and I have to use a different method of clamping or use clamp-on cable stops. There is a little pulley device out there that may allow me to eliminate the bulk of the casing. I think it attaches to the seat clamp bolt, but I don't remember.

Anyway, the ride: There was little difference between the way the bike felt/performed in high gear and riding with a regular fixed wheel. The main difference is that the S3X is not a zero-lash setup. There is about 3/8 of an inch of play in the drivetrain, measured at the pedal. This feels much like a very loose chain does on your regular fixed setup.

It's normal for the S3X, though, and I gather from research that they reduced the lash from the prototype hubs. That must have been excessive, because this is kind of a lot. This was not a surprise, as I had read the warnings. Actually, No Big Deal. It didn't bother me, and I suppose that I will learn to forget about it over time.

Shifting into the lower gears was kewl. It feels WEIRD. It happens fast, and the RPMs go up with kind of a jolt. Got to be careful here. Upshifting was fine.

Shifting seems to accomplish what I'd hoped for. Mostly. I want to be able to ride faster on the flats and downhills without the leg-searing high rpms, and still be able to climb the fairly steep hills of my normal rides. Plus, I want to be able to ride the real steep climbs that I could not manage on the fixed setup. Is it all going to work out as I hoped? Is the S3X the panacea I've been dreaming of?

I doubt it. The realm of fixed gear riding is all about compromises. I'm sure the S3X will require some compromises that will rear their ugly heads in subsequent rides. I'm already thinking that the gear spread is not optimal.

We'll see. Remember what I said about compromises?

My bike is huge (me too, I guess): a 63cm Ishiwata Magny double-butted Bianchi frame and fork, 80s vintage, with a S3X mounted to an Alex 36 spoke SUB rim, a 50T Sugino/170mm crankset, 16T cog, Ultegra front brake, bullhorn bars with an SA barend shifter, SPD clipless pedals, and a 32 hole CXP22 front rim/Shimano hub (until I mount the matching SUB front rim). What's your ride?

First Contact

I am doing this blog to try to connect with other people who like the idea of  the Sturmey Archer S3X 3 speed "fixed" hub. (Or not?) Many people would like them to lose their seriously immature label the S3X. Get it? Hahahahahahaha. Smirk.

 :(

Many would like to see it named  the SB3, S3B, "The Sheldon" or some other homage to the guy who is in some major way responsible for the push to get it made. If you don't know about him, for shame, but it's Sheldon Brown, the late bicycle guru and general supporter and encourager of all things bicycle. I'm there with you about the name change, but SunRace already said no.

This hub is an exciting idea for some of us. You have the choice of 3 "fixed" gear ratios that are shiftable on the fly like the old style 3 speeds. Sure, there are double cogs, flip-flopping the wheel, and other schemes to get different gear ratios, but they require stopping and making the changes. Simple enough, but not convenient by any stretch.

Instead of freewheeling/back-braking like the traditional 3 speed, this hub acts like a fixed cog. Anything other than the real fixed cog will naturally go against the grain for many fixed riders. Some will probably rail against this attack on and perversion of the purity and awesomeness of fixed gear riding and will flame anyone who doesn't hate it passionately (enough).

Well, alrighty, then. But, who cares? I got mine, and if the rain doesn't prevent me, I'm trying it out today.

I'll let you know how it goes.....

Please comment. I'd like to hear your perspective/experiences/review of the S3X.